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Twilight the Texts and The Fandom: Females and Femininity Questions for Week 6

October 5, 2010

Students got into groups of 3 or 4 on Monday to discuss the questions below in relation to the saga’s female characters. (I hope some of you will respond to some of these questions in comments and keep the lively and thought-provoking discussions that have been taking place in comment threads going!)

  1. If Twilight can be seen as “constructing femininity” (or teaching a new generation of readers what it means to be “properly feminine”) what types of femininity is it constructing? What are the positive/negative implications of “Twilight femininity”?
  2. Think about the “real man box” we discussed last week (i.e. the notion that “real men” are brave, macho, strong, etc). What would go in a “real woman” box? How do the female characters of the saga accord with/depart from some of the mythologies of ideal womanhood/femininity?
  3. How does the saga promote (via its representation of female characters) what is known as “The Cult of Domesticity”? (i.e. females should cook, clean, nurture, mother as their primary and most important role)
  4. In what is known as the “Curse of the Good Girl,” (as documented by Rachel Simmons) girls are pressured to embrace a version of selfhood where there is a great emphasis on being “good.” This “good girl” paradigm, Simmons argues, curtails girls’ agency, power, choices, and potential. Arguing girls are encouraged to be nice, polite, modest, selfless, submissive, and nurturing, Simmons suggest that “good girl identity” is damaging and profoundly limiting for females. She argues it has a poisonous effect leading to self-criticism, the stunting of vital skills and habits, and the tendency to attack/turn against other girls/women. How do you see this “Curse of the Good Girl” playing out in the saga in relation to your chosen character(s)?
  5. In “Odd Girl Out: The Hidden Culture of Aggression in Girls” Simmons documents how girls who are openly confident and assertive are sometimes labeled as “all that,” a negative descriptor that indicates they are conceited and too full of themselves. These “all that” girls go against the good girl norms described above – they may be assertive, confident, sexually active/aggressive. They might resist self sacrifice or put their own needs/desires first. They may be confident about their appearance and bodies and/or refuse to dress/act in socially sanctioned ways. Do/does your groups chosen character(s) represent “all that” femininity? How does the saga in general promote or resist the condemnation of “all that” females?
  6. How do/does your chosen character(s) link to the concept of “Rape Culture” and the widespread violence against women in contemporary culture?
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24 Comments leave one →
  1. October 6, 2010 6:24 am

    My answers are usually long-winded, but this one I can wrap up a little shorter. I know people complain about Bella following after Edward in the books and falling in love immediately, but I think Meyer showed a reasonable balance with characters. As tough as Emmett seemed to be, he was always trying to appease Rosalie with her jealous and temperamental ways. Jasper seemed to admire Alice’s strength and was especially vocal about his love for her in “Eclipse” (I think moreso in the movie than the book). For young ladies who would like to see men truly be head over heels in love with them, Bella clearly had that down. Esme was the strong, silent type. Although she wanted to be peaceful, she didn’t pause before a fight and Carlisle went with what Esme, Rosalie and Bella seemed to want. Even though Leah got on everybody’s nerves, they still tolerated her and understood her pain as a werewolf. I think they sympathized with her more once there was confusion about which married guy was her father.

    Personally I don’t get up in arms about women cooking or cleaning, etc. I know Bella played that role with Charlie, but her mother was a complete flake so once again, diversity. I think Meyer covered a little of everybody. I know a billion Jessicas, but I know some Angelas, too. There weren’t two females who were alike in the entire book.

    In “Twilight” and “New Moon,” I thought Bella was cool. However, I think Meyer took to heart what readers were saying about her falling all over Edward because she made Bella irritating, manipulative, bossy and disrespectful to her father in the last two books. I wanted to reach through the book and just pop her in the forehead. I went from thinking she was okay to being repulsed by her entire personality. This is why I’m still a little bitter about Meyer not having the scene where Leah tells her about herself. Leah was the ONE person who just was not impressed by the girl, and readers were cheated out of that.

    As far as real men, all of the guys seemed rather macho. Even though Carlisle wasn’t puffing his chest out and threatening to kill everybody, which pretty much EVERY guy in the books did (minus Mike, who always wanted Edward to just disappear and bet that Jacob would beat him in a fight) Carlisle was still the person they looked to. He had quiet power.

    The competitive nature and the need to prove “I can do this too” is probably why I connect to Leah the most, plus I REALLY wanted her to end up with Jacob. But again, there weren’t two characters who are alike so I think everyone explored their Twilight femininity in different ways.

    As for the rape culture and violence against women, I still stand by my opinion about Bella asking for the second kiss. However, Ana (another commenter) had a point about her verbally saying “no.” I remember attending an event about “No! The Documentary” where a girl stood up in the audience and said she didn’t know if she’d been raped or not. Her body was moist and reacted to the guy’s touch, but mentally she didn’t want to proceed. The way Meyer wrote the kissing scenes with Bella and Jacob initially, it seemed more like that same kind of fine line. She did ask for and enjoy their second and third kiss though. But actually Bella was really testing Edward out. Edward repeatedly tried to hold back from kissing him and she just kept coming on stronger. I definitely don’t agree with her ultimatum for sex. I felt like Edward was backed into the kind of corner that teenage girls usually are. He knew this is what he had to do to keep her, and he also knew if he didn’t change her into a vampire someone else would and she’d be unhappy. Basically I felt like she gave him a “blue balls” story, just with the manipulative story about wanting to “feel” him like a human would. If anyone was pressured, I’d say Edward was pressured most.

    P.S. Yes, I know I lied about making this short. I can’t help it. Once I start typing, this is how these messages go.

    • October 7, 2010 12:56 am

      Heh it looks like we agree on this aspect at least. I do think Smeyer had a lot of different kind of women and different kinds of femininity displayed on the saga and I liked that all of them found love no matter their virtues or defects. Of course except Leah but Smeyer is going to write a book from her POV so I think she had Leah single at the end of BD as a way to have her face a love conflict of her own.

      • October 7, 2010 1:02 am

        Hooray! *digital dap to Ana* I knew we could agree sooner or later. *smile* As far as the book, where did you read that? I’m going to be camping outside a bookstore or Amazon.com to find this book. Do you know when it comes out?

  2. October 7, 2010 7:25 am

    Oh its a book that Smeyer is going to write a few years on the future (my guess that it will be when Reneesme reaches the magical 17 age on the books so like in 2013 or something like it) like Midnight Sun its not out yet, but Smeyer did said that she wants to write the books from Leah and Reneesme POV.

  3. Eva permalink
    October 7, 2010 3:23 pm

    Dear Shamontiel
    I am so glad that you voice some of the things that are in the book and on everyone mind. I always like reading your comments.
    Dear Anna
    thanks for informing us of the book about Leah’s POV. I simply can’t get enough of these books, and can’t wait for the Midnight Sun. I wish it came out sooner.

    • October 7, 2010 3:37 pm

      Hey Eva, thank you for the kind words. 🙂 If I hadn’t graduated already from college already (2003) and lived anywhere near CSU, I would’ve definitely enrolled in this course. The “Twilight” series was the very first time in my entire life that I actually held an interest in books about werewolves and vampires, so I’m excited about the whole phenomenon from the books to the movies to this class.

      Hey Ana, I’m twiddling my thumbs waiting on that book. I’m not really interested in Renesmee as much as I am with the boy at the end of “Breaking Dawn,” but maybe she’ll be more fascinating to me with Jacob Black around. The whole imprinting thing is still just plain weird to me, but to each his own. As for Leah, I’d love to read that book from the time she was in love with Sam until the end of “Breaking Dawn” or later. Initially I wondered why Meyer wouldn’t choose Sam since he’d be the one to give a first-hand perspective on how imprinting works and how he went from being so in love with Leah to Emily. I’ve read enough books about women being heartbroken, but I’m hoping it’s more than just being bitter about Sam. I guess only time will tell.

      A little off topic, I like that “Vampire Diaries” is showing one guy who turned into a werewolf without any company. I feel like since we didn’t get that in “Twilight” with Sam’s story (who was a werewolf for years before he met the pack or knew the fictional Quileute legends), I’ll get to watch it with the character on that show. I can’t remember his name, but on last week’s episode, he finally explained to his brother that in order to be a werewolf you have to kill a human being.

      I liked Meyer’s way much better where it just sporadically ran in the family. That’s another thing I forgot to point out about women and stereotypes. Leah’s father had to die before she finally transformed. I liked that there was a female werewolf, too, and not just one who was in love with a werewolf. And although Jacob was pretty aggressive with Bella, he acted like the perfect gentleman with Leah when she had to find clothes after transforming back to human. I felt like Leah demanded that kind of respect from everybody.

  4. October 9, 2010 3:56 pm

    I think it is highly problematic that Bella is displayed as an Eve in the books. She is the one who seduces Edward, she manipulates him into doing something that he thinks is wrong, into having sex with her although he knows that there is a high risk of hurting her. He gives in to her against his better judgment, and what happens is that he does hurt her, but of course, it is not his fault as it is just part of his nature and beyond his control. She gets bruised having sex with him, but he is not the one to blame because he could not help it. She was the one who wanted to have sex, she knew she was probably going to get hurt, and not only does she not notice her bruises in the beginning, but she even makes clear that she enjoyed the experience. And although her bruises cause her pain later on, she is very careful not to show that to Edward in order not to hurt his feelings or prevent him from having sex with her again.

    In my opinion, this is the most critical part of the saga. It plays down a violent sexual act and depicts the perpetrator of this act as a victim. I really wonder what Meyer was thinking writing that.

    • natalie wilson permalink*
      October 9, 2010 8:27 pm

      K,
      Thanks for your comment!
      I so agree that this representation is HIGHLY problematic. Another point is that Bella refers to her bruises as “decorations” at one point!!!
      I have been privy to many conversations about this subject and have heard people argue that as Bella “wanted it” so there is no problem. I also was at a conference where someone claimed this is a positive representation of BDSM using the “if she likes violence sex, that her choice” argument. Given Meyer’s devout Mormonism, I find it unlikely she was going for a pro-BDSM meme, and, regardless, the representation does not seem to be in keeping with consenstual BDSM nor involve a discussion of rules/a safe word.
      I too wonder what (IF?!?!) Meyer was thinking with these scenes. As you indicate, they blame Bella, let Edward off the hook, and promote the idea that violence against women is sexy and that women like it….

      • cat permalink
        September 10, 2011 5:02 pm

        Not to mention, in BDSM, if you see your partner has passed out, even if the safe word is not said, you stop.

      • Natalie Wilson permalink*
        October 3, 2011 3:14 pm

        Such a great point – thank you Cat!

    • October 10, 2010 6:40 pm

      Hmm wouldn’t be she represented more like Lilith than an Eve? Lilith is usually the one old biblical figure associated with female desire (and vampirism) than Eve. Eve is more the cause of human fall.

      Anyway I have a different interpretation I think Smeyer was going to an hyperbole idea of the first time and how not everything works perfectly, given Edward was afraid of hurting Bella for three freaking books it would had been a HUGE cope out of Bella and she had a perfect first time with everything working out just fine. I think the fact that it was bruised it was not to show any kind of condoning violence (after all Bella doesn’t recall any pain during the sexual act, and Edward did told her that the moment she felt something was wrong she should tell him at once and obviously she did it), but because it was the only thing that could possibly go wrong given the human/vampire relationship.

      • natalie wilson permalink*
        October 11, 2010 12:40 am

        Ana,
        I argue she represents BOTH Lilith and Eve in my forthcoming book… It’s also important to consider that Eve/the fall is viewed differently in Mormonism as more of a “fortunate fall.”
        As per the black and blue body post-BD sex, it seems Meyer could also have had Edward find he could “control himself” and not hurt Bella, especially since he is so perfect and godly and all… And even though Bella denies feeling pain, this is very unbelievable AND is in keeping with components of “battered wives syndromes” where females will deny/minimize the pain abuse causes them… I do see it as condoning and sexualizing violence – whether Meyer “meant to” or not…

    • K (aroline ^^) permalink
      October 10, 2010 11:12 pm

      Thanks for your replies!

      I believe that it might have been Meyer’s intention to show that the first time inevitably hurts and that having your virginity taken away is an inherently violent act that women bear with bravery and without even noticing the pain or letting it reduce their sexual pleasure. Edward does not hurt Bella the second time they sleep with each other. (So, by the way, I do not go along with the thesis of a positive representation of BDSM either.) Nevertheless, I think that the scene implies something much less “harmless” than that, and although it might not have been Meyer’s intention to play down and justify sexual violence, she as a writer should have been aware of that effect.

      I cannot believe with how little consciousness she created Twilight. She finished writing the first book, which consists of several hundred pages (and was inspired by a dream), in only three months. I read in an interview that she did not even notice the parallels between the Cullens and her own family until somebody drew her attention to that aspect. This might not be a big problem, but I think that the representation of Edward’s and Bella’s first sexual experience shows that writing without conscious thought can be dangerous and lead to very questionable results. (“Decorations” – thank you for the hint, I had not noticed the beautiful euphemism that makes the whole thing even worse….)

      • natalie wilson permalink*
        October 11, 2010 12:49 am

        Thanks for your response Karoline… I so agree that Meyer’s either intention or unintentional lack of “consciousness” is problematic. True, she never intended to publish Twilight, but once she decided to, she AND HER EDITORS should have been more “conscious” of the books themes/messages etc (not to mention the over use of the word “glowered”!). And, this excuse holds no water for books coming after Twilight — books which have far more problematic messages about sexualized violence.

        I disagree that losing one’s virginity is inherently violent though… While for most females it involves some pain, this pain can be greatly lessened when one is prepared (ie uses lubrication) — however, due to our ABSTINENCE ONLY cultural meme, most females (and males!) remain undereducated and ill-prepared for their first time… I read a lot of things into Bella’s and Edward’s first time — such as a warning to young women to “stay pure” or else, a message that sex hurts/is dangerous for females but not for males, that if a male gets violent/hurts you he “just can’t help it” and so on… I don’t see any, NOT ONE, redeeming message in the black and blue busted headboard encounter and it sickens me that people proudly where t-shirts claiming “Edward can bruise my body any day” and the like… Yuck.

      • October 11, 2010 1:11 am

        “Edward can bruise my body any day”? Wow, I’ve never seen this shirt. Now THAT is disturbing. But again this is a supernatural fictional creature. I’m more concerned with young ladies rapping the words to Webbie’s “Gimme That” demanding sex. I really truly think Edward did everything in his power to make this an okay experience. He was furious and embarrassed about the results and the bruises. Bella was ready for Round 2. Now is that Meyer’s fault for making Bella just accept it? Again, I say it’s a fictional story about a vampire and a human being having sex. I take it as nothing more, nothing less. It’s REAL people who have abusive sex scenes that worry me, not fictional books.

        Side note: I am a little concerned about girls looking past basic standards though. I remember reading on several message boards about girls saying they didn’t even care if Robert Pattinson smelled, they wanted him anyway. When did we get so desperate that body odor was as irrelevant as T-shirts? (I take that rumor with a grain of salt because the “source” who keeps saying it will never go on record and not ONE talk show host or anyone who has met him will publicly state it, but gossip columnists continue to publish this craziness like it’s fact.) However, that does show how desperate SOME girls are to get their fantasy man.

  5. October 11, 2010 12:58 am

    Why is unbelievable? I’m not as pale as Bella (I am yellowish) and I get bruises that don’t hurt (and that I had no idea where the heck they came from) all the time.

  6. October 11, 2010 1:04 am

    I’d like to step in and defend Stephenie Meyer and her editors for the sex scene with Edward. I refuse to call it rape because it was not. I remember when the 1993 film “What’s Love Got To Do With It” came out. I watched the sex scene between Angela Basset and Laurence Fishburne, turned to my mother and told her, “If this is what the first time is like, I’ll pass.” My mother then sat me down and explained to me the difference between being uncomfortable and pain. Regardless of what the movie shows, it was my mother’s responsibility to explain to me what losing my virginity would be like and why there is some pain involved when it comes to breaking the hymen.

    I refuse to point the finger at a book about a vampire having sex with a human being and say, “Stephenie should’ve known better.” I would expect nothing but a little pain having sex with something that is by nature supposed to kill humans, suck their blood out, can’t even touch you because it’s too cold, has to exercise extreme control when even hugging her and repeatedly refused to have sex with her. Jacob warned her. Edward warned her. Edward even refused her…repeatedly.

    Edward did everything he possibly could to make the experience bearable, from finding warm water so she wouldn’t freeze with him inside her. He bit the bedpost to avoid biting her. He tore up pillows to try to release some tension. While this is definitely violent, he’s a vampire. This isn’t some temperamental human being who has a thing for rough sex. I really think we’re underestimating human teenage girls’ ability to distinguish human sex from fictional sex with a supernatural being.

    Had it been a breezy experience, I would’ve felt completely cheated and rolled my eyes from here to Australia. I already thought it was lame that Bella became this super unique vampire who could control herself around humans, have a half-human baby cracking her ribs and still want it, and protect everyone from thousand-year-old Volturi. Now THAT to me was what was unrealistic, not this sex scene.

    • October 11, 2010 1:21 am

      I wanted to high five you from here. Another point we agree.

      Consensual sex that can uncomfortable or painful (depending on many details) is very different from rape. I mean rape can be non-violent and be instead coercive or done using authority or a gun instead of physical violence and its not less rape because you don’t end up having bruises (and really associating bruises and physical violence with rape led to many rape cases on the past being dismissed because the woman’s body didn’t had any physical signs of struggle. Holding a gun to your head or being too drunk to fight are circumstances when you can be sexually abused and it doesn’t make you any less of a victim and make the experience less traumatic).

    • Karoline permalink
      October 11, 2010 4:38 pm

      You are absolutely right, even if Meyer herself (although she is an English literature graduate) did not realize what kind of messages her books are conveying, at least her editors should have. On the other hand: Looking at Midnight Sun, I assume that the editors were probably busy solving more basic problems, so they could not pay attention to subtleties like underlying psychological and cultural patterns – or the excessive use of a word ^^

      I think that losing one’s virginity is “violent” in so far as a part of the female body gets “destroyed”. However, I agree that the first time does not have to be (too) painful with the right preparation and that moralizing and glorifying virginity misses the problem of respect for female sexuality.

      Yes, of course, fiction is fiction and reality is something quite different. But that does not make the problems dealt with in fiction unreal. Of course there are no vampires like Edward in real life (at least as far as I know), but there are men who claim to do the best they can and still hurt women, and there are women who willingly forgive men for hurting them because of course they did not do it intentionally and it was not so bad after all.

      This argumentation is not about “bashing a wonderful love story” or spoiling the reading experience. I also enjoyed reading the Twilight saga and falling in love with Edward through Bella’s eyes. Nevertheless, I think it is important to critically reflect on that experience, especially since the text material is so full of highly debatable moral and gender standards – and especially since a text full of these standards has successfully appealed to many women throughout many different cultures.

  7. October 11, 2010 2:02 am

    I really advice not to pay that much attention to what a woman think it would do to gain the fantasy man and what she will actually do, Shamontiel.

    You probably don’t know this but Robert Pattinson actually went on a date with a fan and acted the way Edward acts (possibly only the negative side of him but still) and she was so put off that she left on the middle of the date to never come back!

    I’m sure that this “standards” are nothing more than fantasies and that if real life Rpatzz smelled (something I doubt) they will be very put off by it.

    You should also Google Twilight shirts they are all sorts of funny expressions (Team Jacob has its own “standards” as well, like” Jacob can imprint on me any day”), its nothing more than an expression than: “I’m going to kill you” how many people actually do kill people when they say this? Or are actually plotting a murder?

    • October 11, 2010 2:09 am

      Hey Ana,

      I laughed about the high five. It really is a roll of the dice if we’ll be on the same page, but I like reading your (and everybody else’s) responses. However, as far as the date, I did hear about some date where the girl was put off. Did he do it as a joke or was he trying to prove a point? I think both he and Kristen are trying to prove a point about how the media will run with ANYTHING. This is why I wrote an entry venting about that called “What happened to entertainment journalism?” When did the media go from reporting on entertainers to being tabloids? I really wish we’d draw the line somewhere, especially as a journalist by profession.

      But going back to the daydream about the fantasy man, I grew up in an environment with women who absolutely knew the guy was bad for her and STILL dated him. While Pattinson’s character is fictional, when I hear about women like Tiny who marry guys like T.I., who consistently endanger her legal status and has gotten her arrested not once but twice, that’s the girl who doesn’t know where to draw the line. That’s the one who can’t seem to tell fantasy from reality and is all right with blending them both even when she knows one is wrong.

      I might have to contradict my own point about rough sex though because if a girl is naive enough to believe that this is the way sex should be and she doesn’t have some strong female role model in her life to explain to her that that’s not the way it’s supposed to be, she may think it’s normal. Same goes for dating bad boys. If everybody around you dates guys who are bad for a woman, who’s going to tell this girl that’s wrong? I sincerely DO think some of these girls wearing these shirts are dead serious. Some are joking, but when I see real life examples of girls and women knowing full well they deserve better but are so caught up in the reputation, it makes me think otherwise.

      • October 11, 2010 2:34 am

        I will think that a girl that has sex and is painful will not seek out sex again instead of consider it normal. I mean the whole point of pain , biologically speaking, is to warn us about what is bad for us. I mean a first time with some pain and uncomfortably is not the same as an amount of pain that leave you not desiring any more sexual contact.

        I also think that environment plays a bigger part on how a woman would relate herself to men on her lives, than a book, specially nowadays when you can have info about everything from the net, to newspaper to hundreds and hundreds of books, to friends, teachers, colleagues…

        I also think grew up surrounded by women that keep going back to the same abusive relationships (whether the same man or several of the same type) they can and will put of with some men because of various reasons: low self steem, economical or status, sex…you name it. But I think the reasons are way to complex to blame it on lack of information. In my experience some women are educated and know that is not good for them but somehow they deluded themselves into thinking that the man in question is going to change somehow and realize how wonderful they are or are willing to put of with the bad behavior because of the benefits they “think” they are getting out of the relationship. Its sad but I do think that some things run deeply on the brain and take years and years of education, counseling and help to get them out and for that to work out the person needs to be open to change as well.

        And we also need to accept the fact that some people do enjoy sex with violence. So maybe the women that are dead serious are actually talking of something they know very well and maybe they are actually disappointed by the lack of bruises the second time. After all another thing about Twilight is that everyone has a different book or fantasy about it on their head…had you heard about the Jakewards?

      • October 11, 2010 3:44 am

        Ana, from young ladies that I’ve met who have been raped and/or molested even when the experience was bad, they went on to be very promiscuous so the comment about painful sex making you not desire sex can work the other way around. I still haven’t figured out why that is nor do I want to, but as soon as I read that comment, a few girls popped into my head.

        As far as info about everything being on the Internet, with true information comes false information. The same way we read ridiculous things like Pattinson smelling bad is the same way we can get ridiculous information about sex education. Not too long ago I was on a message board with a guy who said HIV/AIDS is made up and he doesn’t use condoms. His way of protecting himself is “not having sex with everybody” but he uses herbs instead of condoms if need be. Someone thanked him for giving him that information, never mind all of the stats and real people saying they have HIV/AIDS. All it takes is one naive person to believe that what someone posted was true, and off it goes.

        I actually do think lack of ACCURATE information accounts for a lot of bad decisions. Being book smart doesn’t necessarily mean you’re educated when it comes to sex. I’m still beyond belief that certain states refuse to teach sex education in their classrooms and say the parents should do it. Clearly some parents are not doing so. When I attended an event in Missouri, I was told that I could talk about safe sex education to college students but not high school students because it wasn’t allowed. A college student came up to me after the event was over and thanked me for talking to the class because in the sex education course that they have in college, they talk about diabetes.

        Nobody in college leaves a party thinking about their insulin levels. I wholeheartedly think if people were more educated about sex education, nothing in “Twilight” could make them think differently, rough sex, vampire sex, etc.

  8. October 11, 2010 4:05 am

    Yeah some things are beyond understanding. I had meet all kinds of girls and boys that had been abused and some of them refuse sex ever again and some other become promiscuous, while some other just become average. I guess it depends on the person or/and the environment to see how will they react.

    I do agree that there is false information, but if a person is willing to believe one person over millions and millions of persons,facts and studies then I say that person was an idiot to begin with and was just looking for someone to quote to justify their own idiotic choices. I mean unless the girl in question lives on an isolated island I’m sure there is plenty of ways she can find info about anything, specially sex. I mean I grew as a Latina and we have a long tradition of romance stories (telenovelas, and books) with a lot of Edward’s, Jacob’s and Bella’s and I can tell you that 98% of us knew that all this was fantasy and that “the rich boy that marries the house maid out of love” its just make believe. Now there was a 2% that actually though this was real and tried to make it happen with disastrous results. Should all this type of stories being banned because of the small percent that couldn’t tell the difference between fantasy and reality? Its a rhetorical question I do agree that book smart doesn’t give you common sense (I sadly learned that, the hard way when one of my graduated from college with honors best girlfriend ended up dating a string a losers and got “accidentally” pregnant from the worse one of them all).

    I do agree that there should be a lot more of sex education at schools, but I don’t think we should get parents out of the hook if they are being irresponsible about their kids educations. Tell them that is okay to be lousy parents because the state is going to do their job its not a good message. Maybe the schools should try to educate the parents as well.

    Also not sure if you read Jezebel I was reading an article the other day about how teenagers are more likely to use protection than adults nowadays some people become more idiotic as older they get apparently.

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